Has anyone replaced their Delco Remy voltage regulator (the old
mechanical type for a 50 amp generator) with a new solid state
type by Zeftronics? CHief aircraft sells them, just wondering
what anyone's experience was.

Mine is old, acting up and charging too high. In the old days I
guess you could clean the contacts and so forth but I'd rather just
replace it.

kontiki wrote:
> Has anyone replaced their Delco Remy voltage regulator (the old
> mechanical type for a 50 amp generator) with a new solid state
> type by Zeftronics? CHief aircraft sells them, just wondering
> what anyone's experience was.
>
> Mine is old, acting up and charging too high. In the old days I
> guess you could clean the contacts and so forth but I'd rather just
> replace it.

Little different situation, but my C182L came with a Ford 60A
alternator and a vibrating-point electromechanical regulator. I
installed a Zeftronics solid-state Alternator regulator per STC years
ago, and it has worked flawlessly.

kontiki wrote:
> Has anyone replaced their Delco Remy voltage regulator (the old
> mechanical type for a 50 amp generator) with a new solid state
> type by Zeftronics? CHief aircraft sells them, just wondering
> what anyone's experience was.
>
> Mine is old, acting up and charging too high. In the old days I
> guess you could clean the contacts and so forth but I'd rather just
> replace it.

I would keep what you currently have installed and have an A&P reset
the voltage back to where it belongs. Resetting the voltages is a
simple task with a voltmeter. The old style last forever and changing
to a new style will require some FAA paperwork. The A&P will be worth
the cost.

Stache

kontiki wrote:
> Has anyone replaced their Delco Remy voltage regulator (the old
> mechanical type for a 50 amp generator) with a new solid state
> type by Zeftronics? CHief aircraft sells them, just wondering
> what anyone's experience was.
>
> Mine is old, acting up and charging too high. In the old days I
> guess you could clean the contacts and so forth but I'd rather just
> replace it.

Hi,
I have a pair of 28 volt/ 50 amp Delco Remy generators. Four years
ago, I had the two generators overhauled and replaced the contact type
voltage regulators with the solid state Zeftronics units. I am very
pleased with the Zeftronics units. I dealt with Aero Tech of Louisville
and was happy with their support. The Zeftronics units also have LED
indicators and a troubleshooting guide to tell what is going on in the
charging system. The folks at Zeftronics are also very helpful.

Brian

kontiki wrote:
> Has anyone replaced their Delco Remy voltage regulator (the old
> mechanical type for a 50 amp generator) with a new solid state
> type by Zeftronics? CHief aircraft sells them, just wondering
> what anyone's experience was.

General statement: The Zeftronics unit is more accurate and more
reliable... and cheaper. In general, replacing the old unit (rather
than repair) makes a lot of sense.

Specific: However, some aircraft will experience electrical noise
problems in the avionics after replacement. The digital Zeftronics
puts out continuous broadband RF (as opposed to the old mechanical
units that put out various pops and clicks at random times). A lot of
older Piper's especially tend to have the wiring for the VR (up under
the dash) bundled with antenna wires and power lines to the avionics.
The result is a "frying bacon" sound on the ADF on the lower bands -
especially when tuned to a weak NDB. [The needle will also probably
track somewhere well OFF the station.]

If you do install one and you have a split master, tune your ADF to a
weak low band station. Listen to the noise and observe the needle.
Now turn off the alternator/generator. Did the needle move? The noise
change? If so, you probably either have to go back to the old style
unit, or get used to flying NDB approaches in IFR with the alternator
switch off. <G>

jmk wrote:

> General statement: The Zeftronics unit is more accurate and more
> reliable... and cheaper. In general, replacing the old unit (rather
> than repair) makes a lot of sense.
>
> Specific: However, some aircraft will experience electrical noise
> problems in the avionics after replacement. The digital Zeftronics
> puts out continuous broadband RF (as opposed to the old mechanical
> units that put out various pops and clicks at random times). A lot of
> older Piper's especially tend to have the wiring for the VR (up under
> the dash) bundled with antenna wires and power lines to the avionics.
> The result is a "frying bacon" sound on the ADF on the lower bands -
> especially when tuned to a weak NDB. [The needle will also probably
> track somewhere well OFF the station.]

I have had exactly the opposite experience. It is easier to suppress an
electronic regulator than it was to suppress the mechanical
regulator...

ADF (and Loran, remember those?) operate at low-rf frequencies between
100Khz and 500Khz. The "frying bacon" noise that effects these is
usually generated by arcing as the brushes jump across the segmented
commutator in a generator, or arcing as the brushes rub on the
slip-rings in an alternator. This happens regardless if the regulator
is mechanical, electronic or is not there at all...

Preventing the brush RFI from radiating to the ADF/Loran is
accomplished by putting a RFI suppression filter (usually just a
coaxial HyPass capacitor) on the output terminal of the gen/alt.
http://www.lonestaraviation.com/product_details.asp?Product_Name=Alternator%20Filt er
shows such a capacitor. BTW, contrary to what Lonestar claims, putting
such a filter on a gen/alt does nothing to cure alternator whine in
aircraft audio/intercom systems; only in "bypassing" RFI which would
otherwise radiate from the gen/alt and its wiring to the ADF or Loran
antenna. Also note that if the aircraft doesn't have an ADF or Loran,
then a filter is not even necessary, because the gen/alt brush hash
doesn't effect VHF/UHF/GPS receivers... Putting a filter between the
gen/alt and the aircraft electrical bus is not without consequence,
see:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X06270&ntsbno=LAX96FA284&akey=1

Shielding the Field wire running between the regulator and the gen/alt
is usually sufficient to prevent radiation off the field wire. It
matters not if the reg is mechanical or electronic.

mikem wrote:
> I have had exactly the opposite experience. It is easier to suppress an
> electronic regulator than it was to suppress the mechanical
> regulator...
>
> ADF (and Loran, remember those?) operate at low-rf frequencies between
> 100Khz and 500Khz. The "frying bacon" noise that effects these is
> usually generated by arcing as the brushes jump across the segmented
> commutator in a generator, or arcing as the brushes rub on the
> slip-rings in an alternator. This happens regardless if the regulator
> is mechanical, electronic or is not there at all...

I don't think we actually disagree. First off, the
alternator/generator noise is independent of the regulator... If it's
arcing and sparking, then that needs to be addressed regardless.

Second, the mechanical regulator does put out higher amplitude "spikes"
- but they tend to have less power in the higher frequencies than the
digital regulator, and they are MUCH MUCH less frequent. [Basically,
the mechanical regulator only "adjusts" in a few discrete quantum -
whereas the digital unit is constantly switching.] The result is that
the pops and clicks from the mechanical regulator don't tend to
interfere with the ADF and Loran, whereas the higher constant noise
ground floor from the digital unit does.

None of this matters if the regulator has proper grounding and
shielding, and minimal care is made to not run sensitive antenna wiring
and radio power/audio lines bundled with regulator wiring... but in
older planes with mechanical regulators they *could* (and hence *did*)
get away with it.

jmk

jmk > wrote:
> mikem wrote:

Here's an interesting story for you guys to ponder... Years ago, some time after
I installed my Stormscope (and with a fairly new alternator), the anal retentive
electrical engineer in me decided to get one of those solid state Zeftronics
voltage regulators. It created a phantom storm on the Stormscope. I checked
all the grounding, etc, and tinkered with it for a few days, then I re-
installed my mechanical regulator. It's been fine ever since. I still have
that solid state regulator around somewhere. I'm going to try it again, when
I get a chance.

--- Jay


--

Jay Masino "Home is where the critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

Jay Masino wrote:
> jmk > wrote:
> > mikem wrote:
>
> Here's an interesting story for you guys to ponder... Years ago, some time after
> I installed my Stormscope (and with a fairly new alternator), the anal retentive
> electrical engineer in me decided to get one of those solid state Zeftronics
> voltage regulators. It created a phantom storm on the Stormscope. I checked
> all the grounding, etc, and tinkered with it for a few days, then I re-
> installed my mechanical regulator. It's been fine ever since. I still have
> that solid state regulator around somewhere. I'm going to try it again, when
> I get a chance.

Hi Jay, your experience with the solid-state regulator supports jmk's
thesis, ie that the mechanical regulator switches infrequently, and
generates less interference to your Stormscope than the Zeftronics
regulator, which switches on/off at a much higher rate.
I recently experimented with a solid-state regulator which switched at
about 20 to 40Hz.
I also recently tested FAA-PMAed solid-state "linear" regulator, which
doesn't switch at all. It is a class A amplifier which smoothly changes
the alternator's field current from zero to full-on (about 3A). Maybe
you should get one of those to keep your Stormscope happy.

mikem > wrote:
> I also recently tested FAA-PMAed solid-state "linear" regulator, which
> doesn't switch at all. It is a class A amplifier which smoothly changes
> the alternator's field current from zero to full-on (about 3A). Maybe
> you should get one of those to keep your Stormscope happy.

What's the brand name?

--- Jay


--

Jay Masino "Home is where my critters are"
http://www.JayMasino.com
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

Jay Masino wrote:

> What's the brand name?

It was a Lamar. I didn't write down the model number. It was for a 14V
aircraft, probably a Piper, meaning that the regulator sinks the field
current.

mikem wrote:
> Jay Masino wrote:
>
>
>>What's the brand name?
>
>
> It was a Lamar. I didn't write down the model number. It was for a 14V
> aircraft, probably a Piper, meaning that the regulator sinks the field
> current.
>
Piper electrical systems source the field current. The other side of
the field winding is connected to ground.

Ray Andraka wrote:
> mikem wrote:
>
>> Jay Masino wrote:
>>
>>
>>> What's the brand name?
>>
>>
>>
>> It was a Lamar. I didn't write down the model number. It was for a 14V
>> aircraft, probably a Piper, meaning that the regulator sinks the field
>> current.
>>
> Piper electrical systems source the field current. The other side of
> the field winding is connected to ground.
My Comanche regulator grounds the field wiring. I thought most pipers
were that way.

ktbr wrote:
> My Comanche regulator grounds the field wiring. I thought most pipers
> were that way.

Well, let me clarify... grounded is for max generator output.
The regulator controls the generator output by controlling
"how much" it is grounded. This could be done in a pulse-width
method or linear method.

ktbr wrote:

>>>>
>>> It was a Lamar. I didn't write down the model number. It was for a 14V
>>> aircraft, probably a Piper, meaning that the regulator sinks the field
>>> current.
>>>
>> Piper electrical systems source the field current. The other side of
>> the field winding is connected to ground.
>
> My Comanche regulator grounds the field wiring. I thought most pipers
> were that way.

I should have clarified. The Cherokee line uses "B" type regulators.
For those, the regulator is connected between the power buss and the
alternator. Higher voltage at the regulator output (average voltage for
PWM regulators) yields higher alternator output. The other end of the
field winding is grounded. I wasn't aware the the Commanche used the
other type.

kontiki wrote:
> Has anyone replaced their Delco Remy voltage regulator (the old
> mechanical type for a 50 amp generator) with a new solid state
> type by Zeftronics? CHief aircraft sells them, just wondering
> what anyone's experience was.
>
> Mine is old, acting up and charging too high. In the old days I
> guess you could clean the contacts and so forth but I'd rather just
> replace it.

I replaced the Delco-Remy's and paralelling relay on my PA-30 with
Zeftronics, and couldn't be happier. I used to stock a spare generator
and have to replace them regularly - once I installed the Zeftronics,
this came to an end. Guess they don't arc as much.

The installation instructions are dead simple, and they have
diagnostics that tell you what is wrong. In fact, the Zeftronics
regulators were my first experience ever with buying a PMA part (other
than an engine part) and being able to install it exactly per
instructions and having everything work without cutting, fitting,
adjusting, and generally messing with it. It's a good design, IMO.

I also discovered, by talking to their chief engineer, that there is
someone in this world who has a lower opinion of the FAA engineering
and certification people than I do.

Michael

Ray Andraka wrote:
> mikem wrote:

> > It was a Lamar. I didn't write down the model number. It was for a 14V
> > aircraft, probably a Piper, meaning that the regulator sinks the field
> > current.
> >
> Piper electrical systems source the field current. The other side of
> the field winding is connected to ground.

I was wrong. I picked up the unit at the airport tonight. It has
"PAC-484121 Voltage Regulator 14V B-00331-2 Lamar, inc. Bancocas N.J.
USA" silk-screened on the cover.
It is a linear regulator. It regulates in the high side (sources
current to the field). If your alternator has two field terminals, you
have to ground the other one..., just like my Cessna. The Lamar unit
came out of a PA32.

mikem wrote:
>>The digital Zeftronics
> > puts out continuous broadband RF (as opposed to the old mechanical
> > units that put out various pops and clicks at random times

The mechanical regulator operates like a buzzer. I have a
couple of sim setups here I use to teach the systems, and in a dark
room with the alternator operating you can see the small but constant
arcing between the regulator contact points. A capacitor across field
and ground kills most of the noise. The inductance of the field winding
and the resistors in the regulator maintain a semblance of constant
current flow even thought the points are bouncing, and the capacitor
reduces the arcing that makes noise and burns the contacts. Works
pretty well, even though it's primitive. I do like the constant-current
regulator idea, though failure is more likely to be instant and without
warning. Worn mechanical regulators will start dropping the output
voltage or might stick occasionally.

Dan

"kontiki" > wrote in message ...
> Has anyone replaced their Delco Remy voltage regulator (the old
> mechanical type for a 50 amp generator) with a new solid state
> type by Zeftronics? CHief aircraft sells them, just wondering
> what anyone's experience was.
>
> Mine is old, acting up and charging too high. In the old days I
> guess you could clean the contacts and so forth but I'd rather just
> replace it.
>


Used the Zeftronics on my Cherokee 140 about 5 years ago. No issues. Works fine.

Joe Schneider
N8437R



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JJS wrote:

>
> Used the Zeftronics on my Cherokee 140 about 5 years ago. No issues. Works fine.
>
> Joe Schneider
> N8437R

Update: Installed the Zeftronics unit last week and flew out to Austin over the
weekend. Unit works perfectly and makes me realize just how bad my old one was.

I highly recommend these units as a replacement for the old Delco Remy antiques.